I’ve been watching the political landscape for decades and watching the catastrophic slide away from biblical conservatism ramp up even more in recent years.
Lot lived in Sodom, David ruled over saints and sinners David being the chief of sinners. I’m not going to be purity shamed by a dude that has cabinets, sinks, hot cold water, a shower, washer dryer and a car but wants me to be shamed because I have them. Hypocrisy
Greg... thank you for your spot on assessment of American politics. Before his death, Andrew Breitbart's most famous quote was "politics is downstream from culture." That concept is the basis for what is called the Breitbart Doctrine, which holds that in order to change politics, it is first necessary to change culture. Only a miniscule percentage of Americans hold a biblical worldview so where we find ourselves today should not be a surprise.
And, we might now add: "Downstream, and now over the cliff into the abyss." :-/
There is absolutely nothing, nothing to hope for, stand on, or hold onto with regard to our Nation's leaders. For God has already sent "strong delusion." (2 Thess, ch 2)
Remain on the Solid Rock, which is Christ, or perish. And as we pray--and groan--to Him, He WILL keep us there. "He doeth the work."
I think you have misread the cause of our malaise. It is the failure of those who claim to be Christians, like those who founded our country, to be good biblical citizens and to actively follow the great commission. They adopted the delusion of Pietism to abdicate the responsibility of participating in their own governance. The very governance that has been required of believers since the days of Moses.
When you tolerate/accept and promote ungodly deviance from God's word in the Church, it infects the culture, the politics and the very society we are now living in.
Dude sounds like a Gnostic heretic. That the temporal doesn’t matter. IT MATTERS. I’m taking dominion the best way I can with the tools available to me, while at the same time hating the things of the world. Looking to Christ, having no confidence in the flesh, thanking God All Mighty for Grace to live in this cursed world.
We live in Sodom. That’s reality. The vast majority of Americans will lift up their eyes in Hell. God gives faith to who He chooses. That’s reality. He opens the eyes and ears of those predestined. The vast majority of the planet do not receive this gift. I live in a society that will never be blessed by the gift of faith. That’s reality. That’s a fact. Is this a reality that surprises any of you? But when I see a man run for the presidency, a former president that made life better for everyone, on a global scale, at a cost to himself, I might add, I’m voting for him. So, what I don’t understand from his post is, what is Greg’s solution? What are the implications? I know the cause and effect. Greg just begs the question. But, I’m left with the reality of the American political system. It’s not idolatry to apply yourself to political questions, solutions and implications of policy. It is responsibility. Greg sounds like the liberal wing of the SBC , saying Republicans hold a moral equivalence with the left. I don’t vote for a party. I vote for a man. But I have belonged to the Republican Party. All sin. Greg sins. It is our nature. I hate Trump throws gay parties. I hate it. But, Biden murders babies, AS POLICY. We have two choices. Just two. GOD KNOWS IT. I didn’t understand how Greg insinuates That if we have earned a living, own a house, a truck and maintain them, go to a wonderful grocery store, parts store, whatever, THAT IM SOFT AND SINFUL BECAUSE I HAVE THE CONVENIENCE. I fracked oil wells, sometimes 16 hrs a day, rigged up and rigged down seven days a week, at 58 years old, just for the adventure and the money. I was offered the job. In Midland. IM NOT NOW SOFT AT 65. I think I can still swing a sledgehammer for hours , in turn with a crew. I just don’t get the article, I don’t get your explanation of it. I just don’t get the point he attempted to make for lack of the implications to the problems he sees in the American political system and the Christian working his or her ass off trying to make a living
I'll let Greg answer for himself when he's able, suffice it to say that I don't think there is anything you wrote here that Greg would disagree with. And I don't think his thoughts were aimed at people like you, rather, they are aimed at people who have elevated the political savior over and above Christ. Again, I'll let Greg answer for himself, though.
Well, if anything he said is unclear, it certainly warrants at least a clarification from him. I don't think he'd brush off your concerns.
Something about Greg, first time I met him, he had been following some of my writings at an old blog. He kept trying to reach out to me, pursuing me, but I kept pushing him away. Finally, one day I caved and talked to him in person. He's now one of my best friends.
I am in the middle of some things, but I will leave you for the moment with 2 thoughts Greg.
-------------------------
"what is Greg’s solution?"
-------------------------
I would respectfully challenge you sir to point to the biblical passages that promise us solutions to the secular political problems of our day. Or any other day for that matter. Please don't assume anything beyond that question. I didn't say that political engagement is sinful. I simply asked for a biblical basis for EXPECTING that the world be a nice place for me to live as a faithful disciple of Christ.
--------------------------
"I don’t vote for a party. I vote for a man."
---------------------------
I would submit that for Christians, it's not about the party or the man. If it were, we could never vote for anybody because they're all God hating pagans. In both parties.
Christians must vote, if they do, based upon the principles and policies that they can credibly believe a given candidate will enact into law. We are signing Jesus name, not to the man or his party. but to the living conditions his agenda will produce.
You seemed to take my thoughts as pointed at you personally. I do not know you sir. I wouldn't recognize you if you walked up and shook my hand. If what I've said has any application to your heart and life, I would encourage you to take it to the Lord.
I do stand by this article though. What I see driving most "conservative" professing Christians is FEAR. They are AFRAID of losing what they mistakenly believe they have a divine right to and even more afraid of suffering the blood curdling persecution that apparently only happens to somebody else on the other side of the world.
I was struck by the piece's patronizing tone. It is one thing to express a well-reasoned opinion but quite another to do so in a manner that assumes the readers are not sharp enough and need guidance. Such an approach is not only off-putting but also undermines the validity of his arguments. This is one article that would easily fit in the Christianity Today magazine or the Gospel Coalition, whose writers love to castigate any believer who, in their own imagination, is "far more American than they are Christian."
Smith seems to operate under the assumption that Christians with a certain political conviction do it out of the wrong motivation. This is evident in phrases like: "It's all a product of ease and comfort." or "The cruel irony is, all these people who think they are throwing off the old ways in favor of freedom and liberty are by that very act, selling themselves into slavery, including many who would call themselves Christians."
Smith raises some points worth considering, but the condescending manner in which they are presented is counterproductive. Readers are not empty vessels waiting to be filled but rather informed individuals capable of independent thought.
You’re a Gnostic with your head in the clouds. It’s not that complicated. We get to try and improve policy in our own nation’s government. Take dominion. It’s will be Gods will done and his means are failed sinners, like us. Voting and advocating for policy that make the world a better place is our responsibility of loving our neighbor the elect and reprobate. You pose the problem that begs a question. You think I’m soft because of convenience? You want me to wear a hair shirt and a frown to celebrate my faux piety? I want my neighbor to succeed in health, and prosperity, and there is no sin in it. You gonna let the Satanist Sodomite land the plane Greg. Lot was on the plane and offered his two daughters, guess that did the trick. The ten year old I gave the gospel to, survived, on the plain lived his life as one of the greatest authors and pastors in the history of the Reformed faith. You sit on your hands Gnostic. I’m moving…
I will answer you next sir, when I see on this page, your answer to this question.
-------------------------
"what is Greg’s solution?"
-------------------------
I would respectfully challenge you sir to point to the biblical passages that promise us solutions to the secular political problems of our day. Or any other day for that matter. Please don't assume anything beyond that question. I didn't say that political engagement is sinful. I simply asked for a biblical basis for EXPECTING that the world be a nice place for me to live as a faithful disciple of Christ.
Your plane is losing altitude, both pilots have been killed, no one to fly the plane but one dude. An experienced pilot with 5000 hrs on that plane but also a Satan worshipping sodomite. There are women children and Christians on board. To save every person on that plane, all you have to say is yes. Do you say yes Greg?
You think every Christian is on easy street? You think the elderly are having a great time right now? You need to open your eyes! These young people are working full time jobs yet can’t afford a house or rent and food. I think you need to give your pay check to your neighbor and go live under a bridge to show us just how holy you are. But, don’t be late to work, get up early because you’ll have to give your car away, because, we know how much you love your neighbor and a car is just a luxury, which we just read. Go show us how a Christian should live Greg. Be an example to us all. Your problem is, you live under the curse of the law you yourself can’t fulfill. I’ll vote Trump to run a government, not be my pastor. I’ll acknowledge my sin and boast in the cross not a useless confidence in my flesh and praise God he called me before the foundation of the world. I do not begrudge a comfort level, a cleanliness level, a health level to anyone which you call luxurious or priveledge. You a communist now Greg? You calling folks who have worked hard all their life privileged and do not deserve a level of comfort because it’s unchristian. So, go sell everything you have Greg to show how holy you are. Oh, and manage to post how your life is going, take a bath in a creek , cook your meals on a grate under that bridge. Stupidest thing you’ve ever wrote
In fairness to Greg Smith, having known him for a very long time, I think you're misunderstanding him completely here. Also, having known Greg for years, he's the epitome of the example you you're asking him to be here.
TOTAL Disrespect and likely deliberate refusal to understand what is being respectfully pointed out is par for the course for those who love to sow dissention.
A person can be disagreed with without spitting vitriol back because we are challenged by what is being said. Greg Smith seemingly struck a nerve and was apparently right over the target🎯🔨 in his assessment of the situation regarding many western Christians.
Bullying and verbal abuse should have no place in a comment section especially among those who name the Name of Christ. In so doing it crucifies Him afresh
"We now have the party that openly celebrates and promotes sexual perversion and death and the party that, at best, tolerates perversion and death."
Creeping compromise. One step forward, two steps backward.
Not much of a choice, is it?
Lot lived in Sodom, David ruled over saints and sinners David being the chief of sinners. I’m not going to be purity shamed by a dude that has cabinets, sinks, hot cold water, a shower, washer dryer and a car but wants me to be shamed because I have them. Hypocrisy
Sounds reasonable to me.
Greg... thank you for your spot on assessment of American politics. Before his death, Andrew Breitbart's most famous quote was "politics is downstream from culture." That concept is the basis for what is called the Breitbart Doctrine, which holds that in order to change politics, it is first necessary to change culture. Only a miniscule percentage of Americans hold a biblical worldview so where we find ourselves today should not be a surprise.
Great quote from Breitbart.
And, we might now add: "Downstream, and now over the cliff into the abyss." :-/
There is absolutely nothing, nothing to hope for, stand on, or hold onto with regard to our Nation's leaders. For God has already sent "strong delusion." (2 Thess, ch 2)
Remain on the Solid Rock, which is Christ, or perish. And as we pray--and groan--to Him, He WILL keep us there. "He doeth the work."
I think you have misread the cause of our malaise. It is the failure of those who claim to be Christians, like those who founded our country, to be good biblical citizens and to actively follow the great commission. They adopted the delusion of Pietism to abdicate the responsibility of participating in their own governance. The very governance that has been required of believers since the days of Moses.
When you tolerate/accept and promote ungodly deviance from God's word in the Church, it infects the culture, the politics and the very society we are now living in.
Dude sounds like a Gnostic heretic. That the temporal doesn’t matter. IT MATTERS. I’m taking dominion the best way I can with the tools available to me, while at the same time hating the things of the world. Looking to Christ, having no confidence in the flesh, thanking God All Mighty for Grace to live in this cursed world.
We live in Sodom. That’s reality. The vast majority of Americans will lift up their eyes in Hell. God gives faith to who He chooses. That’s reality. He opens the eyes and ears of those predestined. The vast majority of the planet do not receive this gift. I live in a society that will never be blessed by the gift of faith. That’s reality. That’s a fact. Is this a reality that surprises any of you? But when I see a man run for the presidency, a former president that made life better for everyone, on a global scale, at a cost to himself, I might add, I’m voting for him. So, what I don’t understand from his post is, what is Greg’s solution? What are the implications? I know the cause and effect. Greg just begs the question. But, I’m left with the reality of the American political system. It’s not idolatry to apply yourself to political questions, solutions and implications of policy. It is responsibility. Greg sounds like the liberal wing of the SBC , saying Republicans hold a moral equivalence with the left. I don’t vote for a party. I vote for a man. But I have belonged to the Republican Party. All sin. Greg sins. It is our nature. I hate Trump throws gay parties. I hate it. But, Biden murders babies, AS POLICY. We have two choices. Just two. GOD KNOWS IT. I didn’t understand how Greg insinuates That if we have earned a living, own a house, a truck and maintain them, go to a wonderful grocery store, parts store, whatever, THAT IM SOFT AND SINFUL BECAUSE I HAVE THE CONVENIENCE. I fracked oil wells, sometimes 16 hrs a day, rigged up and rigged down seven days a week, at 58 years old, just for the adventure and the money. I was offered the job. In Midland. IM NOT NOW SOFT AT 65. I think I can still swing a sledgehammer for hours , in turn with a crew. I just don’t get the article, I don’t get your explanation of it. I just don’t get the point he attempted to make for lack of the implications to the problems he sees in the American political system and the Christian working his or her ass off trying to make a living
I'll let Greg answer for himself when he's able, suffice it to say that I don't think there is anything you wrote here that Greg would disagree with. And I don't think his thoughts were aimed at people like you, rather, they are aimed at people who have elevated the political savior over and above Christ. Again, I'll let Greg answer for himself, though.
Ah, we’ll just let it go. He writes good stuff…
Well, if anything he said is unclear, it certainly warrants at least a clarification from him. I don't think he'd brush off your concerns.
Something about Greg, first time I met him, he had been following some of my writings at an old blog. He kept trying to reach out to me, pursuing me, but I kept pushing him away. Finally, one day I caved and talked to him in person. He's now one of my best friends.
I am in the middle of some things, but I will leave you for the moment with 2 thoughts Greg.
-------------------------
"what is Greg’s solution?"
-------------------------
I would respectfully challenge you sir to point to the biblical passages that promise us solutions to the secular political problems of our day. Or any other day for that matter. Please don't assume anything beyond that question. I didn't say that political engagement is sinful. I simply asked for a biblical basis for EXPECTING that the world be a nice place for me to live as a faithful disciple of Christ.
--------------------------
"I don’t vote for a party. I vote for a man."
---------------------------
I would submit that for Christians, it's not about the party or the man. If it were, we could never vote for anybody because they're all God hating pagans. In both parties.
Christians must vote, if they do, based upon the principles and policies that they can credibly believe a given candidate will enact into law. We are signing Jesus name, not to the man or his party. but to the living conditions his agenda will produce.
You seemed to take my thoughts as pointed at you personally. I do not know you sir. I wouldn't recognize you if you walked up and shook my hand. If what I've said has any application to your heart and life, I would encourage you to take it to the Lord.
I do stand by this article though. What I see driving most "conservative" professing Christians is FEAR. They are AFRAID of losing what they mistakenly believe they have a divine right to and even more afraid of suffering the blood curdling persecution that apparently only happens to somebody else on the other side of the world.
Very interesting back and forth. Good points made and the discussion provoked a lot of thoughts to consider.
I was struck by the piece's patronizing tone. It is one thing to express a well-reasoned opinion but quite another to do so in a manner that assumes the readers are not sharp enough and need guidance. Such an approach is not only off-putting but also undermines the validity of his arguments. This is one article that would easily fit in the Christianity Today magazine or the Gospel Coalition, whose writers love to castigate any believer who, in their own imagination, is "far more American than they are Christian."
Smith seems to operate under the assumption that Christians with a certain political conviction do it out of the wrong motivation. This is evident in phrases like: "It's all a product of ease and comfort." or "The cruel irony is, all these people who think they are throwing off the old ways in favor of freedom and liberty are by that very act, selling themselves into slavery, including many who would call themselves Christians."
Smith raises some points worth considering, but the condescending manner in which they are presented is counterproductive. Readers are not empty vessels waiting to be filled but rather informed individuals capable of independent thought.
... respectfully
Ya, this conversation is over if you don’t answer the first question I posed. Do you let the Satanist sodomite land the plane? Yes or no Greg.
You’re a Gnostic with your head in the clouds. It’s not that complicated. We get to try and improve policy in our own nation’s government. Take dominion. It’s will be Gods will done and his means are failed sinners, like us. Voting and advocating for policy that make the world a better place is our responsibility of loving our neighbor the elect and reprobate. You pose the problem that begs a question. You think I’m soft because of convenience? You want me to wear a hair shirt and a frown to celebrate my faux piety? I want my neighbor to succeed in health, and prosperity, and there is no sin in it. You gonna let the Satanist Sodomite land the plane Greg. Lot was on the plane and offered his two daughters, guess that did the trick. The ten year old I gave the gospel to, survived, on the plain lived his life as one of the greatest authors and pastors in the history of the Reformed faith. You sit on your hands Gnostic. I’m moving…
I will answer you next sir, when I see on this page, your answer to this question.
-------------------------
"what is Greg’s solution?"
-------------------------
I would respectfully challenge you sir to point to the biblical passages that promise us solutions to the secular political problems of our day. Or any other day for that matter. Please don't assume anything beyond that question. I didn't say that political engagement is sinful. I simply asked for a biblical basis for EXPECTING that the world be a nice place for me to live as a faithful disciple of Christ.
Your plane is losing altitude, both pilots have been killed, no one to fly the plane but one dude. An experienced pilot with 5000 hrs on that plane but also a Satan worshipping sodomite. There are women children and Christians on board. To save every person on that plane, all you have to say is yes. Do you say yes Greg?
You think every Christian is on easy street? You think the elderly are having a great time right now? You need to open your eyes! These young people are working full time jobs yet can’t afford a house or rent and food. I think you need to give your pay check to your neighbor and go live under a bridge to show us just how holy you are. But, don’t be late to work, get up early because you’ll have to give your car away, because, we know how much you love your neighbor and a car is just a luxury, which we just read. Go show us how a Christian should live Greg. Be an example to us all. Your problem is, you live under the curse of the law you yourself can’t fulfill. I’ll vote Trump to run a government, not be my pastor. I’ll acknowledge my sin and boast in the cross not a useless confidence in my flesh and praise God he called me before the foundation of the world. I do not begrudge a comfort level, a cleanliness level, a health level to anyone which you call luxurious or priveledge. You a communist now Greg? You calling folks who have worked hard all their life privileged and do not deserve a level of comfort because it’s unchristian. So, go sell everything you have Greg to show how holy you are. Oh, and manage to post how your life is going, take a bath in a creek , cook your meals on a grate under that bridge. Stupidest thing you’ve ever wrote
In fairness to Greg Smith, having known him for a very long time, I think you're misunderstanding him completely here. Also, having known Greg for years, he's the epitome of the example you you're asking him to be here.
TOTAL Disrespect and likely deliberate refusal to understand what is being respectfully pointed out is par for the course for those who love to sow dissention.
A person can be disagreed with without spitting vitriol back because we are challenged by what is being said. Greg Smith seemingly struck a nerve and was apparently right over the target🎯🔨 in his assessment of the situation regarding many western Christians.
Bullying and verbal abuse should have no place in a comment section especially among those who name the Name of Christ. In so doing it crucifies Him afresh
And what happened to the plane?
Ask Greg, it’s his call…